Marcel Jacob with Pontus Norgren talking about Talisman and Humanimal
  
by Jörgen Holmstedt - Melodic.net 2002
   

First they were Talisman. Then Human Clay. Then Talisman again. Now they are called Humanimal all of a sudden, which, to make it even more complicated, is the title of no less than two Talisman albums. On top of this, they are releasing a Talisman live album any day now! melodic.net cornered basist Marcel Jacob and guitarist Pontus Norgren, the two masterminds behind the new Humanimal album, to clear up the mess.
 
Marcel even give us something of a shock: He has developed a sickness that will prevent him from playing in the future.  
     
Humanimal, another name for what essentially are the same people, only the drummer being different from the current Talisman line-up. Why is this?
   
Marcel Jacob: It started with an idea Pontus had. He was sitting in his home studio and called me to ask me if we should make an album together. This was sometime in 2000. I agreed and got in touch with Mark Alger at Z Records in England. "Do you have any songs?", he asked. "No", I replied. "What are you going to do then?" Alger continued. I said "a hard rock album". He agreed and from the beginning it was going to be some sort of concept album with different vocalists like Leif Sundin, Jeff Scott Soto and Mats Levén. In the end Jeff Scott Soto agreed to do the whole album, and then we put the original vision on ice.
   
     
For a while the word was that Jeff Scott Soto would only sing on a few tracks and not being too involved.
   
Marcel: Exactly, that´s how it was in the beginning. Then Mark Alger suggested it was a better idea to use just Jeff, and we all went along with that. This was a discussion we had while Pontus was touring Europe as the sound engineer for the revamped Thin Lizzy.
   
Pontus Norgren: We took a break as all of a sudden Lizzy asked me to do their sound in October 2000. Their sound guy didn´t work out, and it was an emergency. I got home for Christmas.
 
Marcel: Then me and Pontus wrote the songs: "Again 2 B Found", "Licence 2 Kill", "Feel The Burn", "Road 2 4giveness" and "Who Do You Think U R".
 
   
Then Pontus left again, touring America with Lizzy. And on top of that he went on honeymoon. I found myself writing a lot on my own. As the summer came, we had Jeff scheduled to come over to Stockholm to sing and as I felt playing live with the guys, I booked a few festivals for Talisman. Among these the Sweden Rock Festival.
   

   
And now there is a Talisman live album, "Live At The Sweden Rock Festival", coming out?
   
Marcel: Yes, it was a good thing we recorded that gig, as it was a complete success. We were playing one of the smallest stages, the tent, and it was absolutely crowded even an hour before we went on, with people screaming for us. You couldn´t get a single more person in there.
   
     
I remember people being completely mad. During "I´ll Be Waiting" the sing along crowd were so load, you could not hear Jeff sing. Were you surprised at the overwhelming respons, having been away for so long?
   
Marcel: Yes and no. We know we have our fans, and they were likely to turn up at a rock festival like that one.
   
     
I have never seen an audience raving like that at a Talisman gig, not even in 1990 when you were one of the biggest hard rock bands in Sweden. Of course you´ve must have been surprised!
   
Marcel: As I said, yes and no. A lot of our fans are loyal and this was their first Talisman show in several years. That´s why we got such a warm reception.
   
     
Why not go on as Talisman then?    
Marcel: There are many reasons for that. One being the market these days. It´s difficult to get proper distribution and airplay and all that. But it´s also because I wanted to try a few other things, like playing guitar in Human Clay, the side project me and Jeff had for a while, and also because people had expectations on Talisman we could not agree with.
  
I didn´t want to sound like the first two Talisman albums anymore. But I´m not against doing more work under the name of Talisman, but I want to do it under proper circumstances, like a good recording deal and a full live production.
   
     
When will the Talisman live CD will be out?    
Marcel: Soon. We have just mixed it, all the songs from the gig, and will start shopping it now.
    
     
Isn´t this coming out to close to the Humanimal album?
   
Marcel: That´s not our problem (laughter).    
     
Seriously, why do you keep changing the name of the band so often?
    
Marcel: Because it´s all different things. Talisman was one thing. It was a proper band. Then in the mid 90´s me and Jeff did a couple of albums under the Human Clay monicker. As we all know that wasn´t an entirely serious project and something we did pretty much because we could. After that the time felt right for another Talisman album, "Truth", in 1997. At the time we had not done a Talisman record in a couple of years, and also I wanted the holiday in America that went with the recording at Jeff´s studio (laughter).
    
     
And now you are called Humanimal. Why?
    
Marcel: To start off the new CD does not sound like Talisman and also this thing is founded by me and Pontus rather than me and Jeff, whose main contribution besides singing are some of the lyrics.
    
     
But why such a confusing name as Humanimal? Now you think of Talisman any way, as a couple of Talisman CD:s had the title "Humanimal".
    
Marcel: Because it´s a funny and clever name I invented up on my own and I like it a lot. I wanted to have the human monkey from the Talisman covers on this cover too, but some people thought that was too much like Talisman.
    
     
I´ve got news for you guys: The new CD still sounds like Talisman.    
Marcel: That´s weird, because I honestly do not think so.
    
Pontus: I do not think it sounds like Talisman, but I can understand if people think so. Marcel has got such a genuin bass sound that you obviously relate to Talisman. And that in combination with Jeff´s voice, well, of course that makes people think of Talisman.
  
Marcel: This music is so much more simplistic than Talisman. It´s an entirely different way of thinking when it comes to do music.
  
   
     
It still sounds a lot like Talisman to me, and as you are pointing out Marcel, you don´t want to sound the same all the time, and therefore this album could very well be seen as the next step in the evolution of Talisman, couldn´t it?
    
Marcel: (sighs) Well, if people want to see it that way, they might as well do it.
    
     
Am I completely wrong?    
Marcel: I don´t know. You might be right. If people think it sound like Talisman and that´s the reason why they like it, then that´s fine with me. But I can imagine other people thinking it sound different and liking it because of those differences. People who are not expecting it to have massive keyboards.
    
     
But you have never really used that much keyboards, have you?
    
Marcel: The first Talisman record had quite a lot.
    
Pontus: There has been massive, thick guitars on many of the Talisman albums. On this record I think the guitars breath more.
    
     
The only line-up change from what is Talisman is that on the Humanimal album it´s Peter Broman, formerly of Great King Rat, instead of Jamie Borger on drums.
    
Marcel: Yeah, that was another of the main ideas for this, I wanted to make an album with Peter Broman.  
He is one of my favorite drummers. My other fave is is Jamie Borger. They are very much alike. They both comes from the same area, Dalarna, in the north of Sweden, they play just about the same type of drum kit and both are basically very jazzy in their playing style. Only Jamie is a bit back beat whereas Broman is a bit more up front. I feel very safe playing with any of them, only now it was time to make a CD with Broman. If you want to make an album, hire any of these two guys, that´s my advice.
  
   
Broman laid down the drums for this record in just a day and a half. It would even have been a lot quicker, if Pontus would not have ERASED all the drums Broman did the first day.
    
Pontus: Oooops! I did it again! (laughter).    
     
And Jamie Borger didn´t mind to be left out on this album?
    
Marcel: No, he is now going in a poppier way of drumming anyway. I don´t want to have that sort of discussion with the drummer, having to push him to rock. With Broman, you just tell him to play and then you press the recording button. Having said that, I must admit Jamie still play very heavy drums in the coverband him, me and Pontus have, called Marre´s Finest.
    
     
Yet another name for Talisman.
    
Marcel: C´mon, it´s just a coverband. Anyway, Jamie and Broman are way, way better than over rated drummers like Lars Ulrich, who, on the other hand, is a nice guy, and that crappy Indian who plays with Ozzy, Randy Castillo, who just BANG the drums, as supposed to PLAY them. It´s like Yngwie says about guitarists: there are guitarist... and there are the one´s who are just guitar owners. That´s so on the spot (laughter).
    
     
That´s the first nice thing you´ve said about Yngwie Malmsteen in almost two years.
    
Marcel: Yngwie can be funny at times.    
     
You did a Swedish tour with Yngwie in the summer of 2000, and then left him on very bad terms.
    
Marcel: It was only meant for me and Anders Johansson to play with him on the Sweden Rock Festival, as he couldn´t afford to fly in his American band for that gig. Then I booked some more gigs for him on my own. A mistake, as the tour was absolutely terrible. I will not do it again... Are you sure you should print this?
   Mats Olausson, Marcel Jacob, Yngwie Malmsteen, Mark Boals and Anders Johansson
   
     
It´s up to you.
    
Marcel: Well, on the other hand it´s no secret that we are not talking anymore. Yngwie is a fantastic guitar player, but he can´t handle life in general. He always picks a subtitute dad for a manager, the sort of slimey gangster who always screws him in the end, and a substitute mom for a wife, a totally mad woman who makes life miserably for everybody as she interfers with everything he does. So far this has only resulted in disasters. It creates problems which makes you shy away from Yngwie. I will never ever play with him again.
    
     
You´ve said that three times now: In 1982, 1985 and now again.    
Marcel: This time it´s for real. It´s great playing with him, but all the terrible things that comes with it... No, I just CAN´T take it again!
    
     
So you are promising that you will never play a single note with Yngwie again?
    
Marcel: (silent for ten seconds) Not as long as he has one of those slimey sort of managers and is married to THAT woman anyway.
    
     
Back to Humanimal: Is it true that two of the members, Jeff Scott Soto and Peter Broman, has never met each other?
    
Marcel: Yes, Broman was done with recording the drums and away on holiday when Jeff came over to sing.
    
     
Isn´t it strange that two of the Humanimal members has not even met each other?
    
Marcel: No, I don´t think so.    
     
Is this a band or a project?    
Marcel: We don´t now yet. No, let me refrase that: It´s a band.    
     
A band with some members who has never met each other?    
Marcel: Ah, that doesn´t matter. It´s a bit incpestuous, but were still a family.    
     
You´ve already released two albums with that title as Talisman haven´t you?
  
Marcel: Yes, that´s true (laughter). Um... Honestly, we haven´t thought of this problem.
  
   
So what we have here is an album called "Humanimal" for the third time?
  
Marcel: I doesn´t look any better, I´m afraid.  
   
For a while I was toying around with the idea to call the album "Talisman". Now that would have been funny (laughter).
    
     
If we look at the new songs, I think the opener "R U 4 Real" sounds like Talisman circa "Humanimal" era.
    
Marcel: The songs I think has hints of Talisman are rather "Again 2 B Found", "Love´s The Dominion", "Turn Away" and "Found My Way Home". Otherwise I we have used a new way of arrangeing and primarily writing. Most of these songs actually started with such a silly thing as a drum loop or a drum pattern, or just us deciding to do something in the 7/4 rhythm, like with "R U 4 Real". A rule for this album has been to NOT using any power chord riffs, the riffs are single string riffs, like on "R U 4 Real". The lyrics are about people who wants the become famous just for the sake of it, like those crazy Americans on talk shows like "Ricky Lake" and docu soap people. You know, "Survivor" and such.
    
Pontus: And the harmonies are TOTALLY different from Talisman.    
     
There´s a cool chucka-chucka sound in the song "Road 2 4giveness", is that a guitar?
    
Pontus: Yeah, it is a loop created by me. We wanted odd sounding things like that in the songs. We even wanted to go even further with that actually. We´ll do it next time.
    
     
"Licence 2 Kill" has a riff similar to the one in the Talisman song "Fabricated War" of the 1994 album "Humanimal"?
    
Marcel: Yes, that´s exactly what we wanted. We called this one "The German Song" as it has that sort of German marching rhythm. And Pontus decided to put on a twin guitar line a´la Iron Maiden.
    
     
"Find My Way Home" sounds a lot like the recent Red Hot Chili Pepper´s hit ballad "Otherside"?
    
Marcel: Jeff said the same thing, but I don´t think so. Maybe it´s been in the back of my head, without me thinking of it. It started with a loop that was so ugly it was cool. If it´s inspired by any band, it´s Alice In Chains.
    
     
"Feel The Burn" has an Eastern feel to it?    
Marcel: Yes, I came around to using that Arabian riff I´ve had for years. Pontus liked it so much, it finally became a song.
    

   
The song "I" starts with what could be described as deep sounding steam boat whistles and what I think is a sitar?
    
Pontus: It´s all guitars. The sitar sound comes from a half aucustic guitar with the wrong tuning.
    
Marcel: Yeah, you remove all the normal strings on a twelve string guitar and just use the octave strings.
    
     
"Who Do You Think U R" seems to be a hate song?
    
Marcel: It´s Jeff´s lyrics. I think it´s about the other guys in the disco cover band The Boogie Knights, who were pretty mean to him. That´s why he left.
    
     
 
And now Jeff is going to do a solo album in the AOR vein of Journey and Eyes?
  Marcel: That´s what he says.
   
 
But Jeff has said he is through with singing AOR and want to be the new Prince or Terence Trent D´Arby?
   
Marcel: I think it 50/50 old and new material. I know nothing more about that.
    
     
Are you going to do another record with your solo project Damage Done, Pontus?
    
Pontus: Yes, I am. The first album has sold OK in Europe and we have done a couple of gigs.    
     
You have written a lot of the lyrics on your own this time, Marcel?    
Marcel: Yeah, I did as it was originally not meant for Jeff to be on all of the album. I´ve done it before though. I did all the lyrics on John Norum´s album "Total Control" besides "Someone Else Here", "Too Many Hearts", "Back On The Streets" and "Law Of Life". Also I´ve done quite a few lyrics on the Talisman records.
    
     
What sort of future has Humanimal?    
Marcel: It depends on how the album is recived.    
     
What would the setlist be on a Humanimal tour?
    
Marcel: It depends on where we are playing. In Japan, where they expect you to play more than just the latest album, we would to more of a greatest hits set with a few new arrangements.
    
     
Besides Talisman songs, are you talking about Yngwie Malmsteen and John Norum songs as well?
    
Marcel: I don´t like to play the Norum songs anymore. Maybe "Let me Love You". The old Yngwie song I´m more confident playing, especially those I co-wrote on the "Marching Out" album.
    
     
You have no songwriting credits on that record?    
Marcel: Like everybody else, then. Only Jeff got credited for some lyrics, but me and the Johansson brothers, Jens and Anders, got nothing, even though we did co-write. Jens didn´t get any credits for the first "Rising Force" albun either. He co-wrote "Evil Eye" for instance. On "Marching Out" I co-wrote at least "Soldier Without Faith" and "On the Run Again".
    
     
Aha, so that´s why you played "On the Run Again" on the first Talisman tour in 1990?
    
Marcel: Exactly. It was a band compostion.    
     
Why did you give up your credits for these songs?
    
Marcel: I tried to get everybodys attention on this, but no one cared. Yngwie´s manager just got upset if you demanded things like that.
    
     
Marcel, you´ve been studying to become a psychologist for the last five years. When will you be done?
    
Marcel: I have another year of studying to do. The direction I will take is a called clinical psychology.
    
     
I´ve always felt that you are not sure about this new career move, as you´ve seem to be more eager to rock that ever. When you are not playing with Yngwie Malmsteen or John Norum, you are doing cover gigs and have both Talisman and Humanimal running at the same time.
    
Marcel: Well... The music is damn difficult to leave, as I´ve done it for such a long time and I really enjoy it. But the thing is that there is a life after the music. In my case, I will not be able to play physically forever.
  
I´m most likely becoming a rheumatic. It´s in the family, my mother and grand mother has big problems with this as well. The doctors can´t find what´s wrong with my body, but I´ve got all the signs of rheumatism. I´m getting very stiff in my joints and it hurts. Some days I can´t play at all.
 
   
     
Have you been force to cancel gigs due to this?    
Marcel: Not so far, luckily.    
     
Has the doctors told you for how long you will be able to play?    
Marcel: No, they can´t tell my anything, they say. They take all these tests and still can´t say what wrong with me. Neither do they help me. It´s sad, but that´s life, I guess.